Do You Really Need a Villain? Or Is Life Enough?

Do you really need a villain to tell a powerful story—or can life itself provide the opposition your character needs? In this episode, Zena answers a writer’s question about whether “life as the villain” works, and breaks down the difference between antagonists, villains, and complex characters who don’t fit neatly into either box.

You’ll learn:

• Why “life” as an antagonist can weaken your story (unless it’s a disaster plot).
• How antagonists differ from villains—and why that matters.
• The dangers of victimizing your protagonist.
• How to craft compelling conflict even without a traditional “bad guy.”

Perfect for writers exploring survival stories, nuanced characters, or non-traditional narrative conflicts.

This question came straight from Zena’s monthly office hours, which are open to anyone who’s ever purchased one of her classes. Want access like this? Check out her courses and join the mission. Learn more at The Storyteller’s Mission.


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Transcript

[00:00:00] Janet, you had a question? I do. I, I seem to struggle with my villains 

[00:00:03] So I'm wondering if can life itself be a villain? Like what you go through different things in life? Um, is that enough? For a story. Okay, that's a great question. That requires several answers here. Hello and welcome to the Storytellers Mission with Zena Del Lo, a podcast for artists and storytellers about changing the world for the better Through story.

[00:00:28] First of all, yes. Sometimes it's not that there's a specific villain, there might be a antagonist, but maybe it's a disaster film. In a disaster film. It's about them trying to overcome the natural elements. And that is sufficient, like just trying to survive. So like in, I don't know if you guys remember the movie Alive, which was also a book based on the, I think it's the soccer team who crashed in the Alps and they have to survive and they have to eat, you know, human bodies and to survive and everything until one of 'em is able to get down and get re, you know, rescued.

[00:01:06] Boy. They were just trying to survive. It's a survival thing. and sometimes that happens in real life too. What makes it. Tricky, Janet. It doesn't sound like yours is a disaster film. Sometimes when it's just life, it can really start to feel like you're victimizing your protagonist. You know, boo hoo hoo.

[00:01:28] Poor them. Everything is going wrong. What's nice about a villain or an antagonist is that it means that there is, for lack of a better way to put this, it's intent, it's intentional, it is malice. But therefore, it's not just nihilism, right? It's not just like, oh gosh, we're overwhelmed by life and we're victims and we're never gonna overcome.

[00:01:53] I mean, if it's a personality now, it's like that's the clash, right? A clash of personalities. Then can we overcome in the face of people that are directly opposing us? It's just very easy to get into a victim mindset when it's just life, unless. It's a disaster type story, so there's that. Now, having said that, I do think people struggle to know the difference between an antagonist and a villain.

[00:02:19] A villain means that they are deliberately and intentionally. Have some sort of horrible end game in mind that your main character has to thwart. An antagonist means it's competition, means it's somebody else that's after the same gal.

[00:02:41] Maybe they're not evil, but they're definitely competition. Or maybe you want the same part on the dance team, and that's your main competition. A lot of times you'll see what'll happen is they'll make them both the antagonist and a villain. I. Right, so that the stakes are higher, but they don't have to be, I mean, I've actually really enjoyed certain films where there's an antagonist, but not a true villain.

[00:03:05] Like do you remember in Reese Witherspoon when she Sweet Home Alabama? Mm-hmm. She's got the two love interests, but they're both good guys. Yeah, they're just different. Mm-hmm. And she has to choose. That was so much more interesting than making one of them secretly evil. Right. And you know, by the way, that's one of the things I hated, hated about Frozen For one.

[00:03:29] I didn't buy it. It, I didn't believe it at all. It came out of nowhere. But for two, I think it took away from the power of the message, which is. That even when the guy is a good guy, it doesn't mean it's true love. That's really interesting. And the True Love's Kiss was from her sister. I think it would've been far more emotionally complex for the guy not to have been a villain, and he didn't need to be a villain, and they didn't even.

[00:03:58] Set it up. It was a twist that came outta nowhere, but Disney's not consulting me on their stories. I know enough not to write a book about a bunch of nice people doing nice things. I know that, but I, I tend to get into their stories so much that by the time it's over there, there's a lot of depth and great characters.

[00:04:15] But I couldn't tell you which ones the bad one, you know, because they, even the bad ones have an arc. Well, maybe you don't have a true villain, and that's okay. And here's the thing. Part of what we are often up against, depending on the style that you're writing, is our own weakness. Right. See, a villain is somebody who embraces the dark side because, and of course, they're their own hero.

[00:04:43] In their mind. They're a hero. They're doing the hard thing that nobody else is willing to do. So they see it as a heroic act that they're gonna do the hard thing, so they lean into it something that seems evil or that would be evil to the rest of us. No, it's just necessary and I'm gonna do it. They're never a villain in their own mind, by the way.

[00:05:05] But sometimes, like you said, this guy, he's made mistakes, but we understand why he is made mistakes and he's supposedly your villain. But it sounds to me like he's trying to correct his mistakes and he becomes very sympathetic. But maybe in the end, he is overcome by his character flaws. He's unable to. I don't know if that's true, in which case he has lost his soul.

[00:05:30] He may very well be the main character for all I know, and it might be a story of not being able to overcome your own foibles. 

[00:05:39] So that's just it. He might not be a true, bad guy who ends up being damned, and that's great if we can feel bad for that kind of character and then learn from his mistakes or whatever. I haven't read it, so I don't know, but I, I wouldn't get too hung up on the villain part if you are not writing a true.

[00:06:00] Villainous Peace if you will. Let him just be a complex character who, 'cause you have multiple, usually we have multiple protagonists and then we have one main character. The main character. I know I've said this but I'll repeat it here. The main character is always the character that changes the most over the course of the telling.

[00:06:20] Who changes the most. That's how you can tell. Does that help? Very much so. Thank you for listening to the Storyteller's mission with Zena Del Lo. May you go forth inspired to change the world for the better your.