Act Two vs Act Three: What's Really Happening at the Transition

Writers often get stuck at the transition between Act Two and Act Three—especially when the “all hope is lost” moment doesn’t quite fit their story. Is this moment supposed to be the character’s lowest emotional point? Is redemption supposed to kick in right away? What if your character is still flailing?

In this episode, Zena challenges the conventional “lowest point” terminology and offers a more nuanced, flexible way to think about this crucial plot transition—and how understanding this shift can raise the stakes and deepen your protagonist’s arc.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Who has a question? Anyone? Can I chime in then? Yeah. Alright, so when you're at Act two part six and you're transitioning into Act three part one, and you're at your lowest point, can you go back and forth? What I'm thinking now is I'm somewhere between, somewhere at that lowest point and formulating a new plan, which is part of Act three, part one, and then you just keep going back and forth.

[00:00:23] Experiencing new setbacks as you're crossing into that third act. Hello and welcome to the Storytellers Mission with Zena Del Web, a podcast for artists and storytellers about changing the world for the better through story. Let me read what you asked. You said. Zena, can you clarify the transition between act two part six or the act two turning point?

[00:00:48] Does the lowest point go? Could act two part six end in a pit of despair, anxiety, or hopelessness? Or does act two part six conclude with realizing the protagonist? Fortune is like an incident or catalyst for change rather than an unfortunate circumstance or moral failing, or does the hint at redemption come at the beginning of part three?

[00:01:08] In other words, does the protagonist anxiety melt away at the end of act two part six, or at the beginning of act three, part one? So that was your question. Is that still kind of what you're asking about? That's, that's exactly where I'm at. Okay. And so, trying to say in my email response. To you. What I was trying to say is that it was a tricky question to answer because I felt like there were some assumptions that were false.

[00:01:33] Mm-hmm. Uh, the main assumption that I felt that, that you were making is that the anxiety would melt away at all, and, and there's no guarantee that any anxiety is going to melt away. So that's where I had asked for some clarity on that. Like I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about, but the clarification on the difference between the act two turning point and Act three part one.

[00:01:54] I've always described, at least in the course, I've described Act two, turning point. You know, right before we go into Act three as being the all hope is lost moment. It's the lowest point for the character, but there's another way to look at it that might be helpful for people because sometimes maybe it isn't all hope is lost.

[00:02:14] I mean, that kind of presupposes it. Maybe superposes. A story beat that isn't appropriate for your story. If your character has to arrive at this place of hopelessness, maybe that's not the thing that happens in your story. So I think there's a way to modify that term that could be helpful, and that would be the point of no return.

[00:02:34] And what I mean by that is that regardless of where they're at emotionally, maybe it's not their most low point, but it is a point of no return, meaning they can no longer. Resist heading into the climax. They turned a point. It's the point of no return. The climax is coming, the showdown is coming. There's no way to stay in Act two where they've been relatively safe.

[00:02:58] Now they've gotta go and face whatever it is. I mean, if you think about act two as sort of being like they're in exile. A little bit. Act two is the New World, so they're a little bit in exile, and so they're playing around in there, and a lot of things can happen in Act two, but it's unfamiliar territory.

[00:03:14] They're having to explore. They're having to learn new things. They're acquiring new resources, they're acquiring new allies, but they're a little bit in exile. And at the end, at Act two, the point of no return means. They can no longer stay in the land of exile. They now have to go back to the land from wince they came, and that includes the conflict that drew them or threw them into exile in the first place.

[00:03:40] Whatever that thing is that made 'em. Leave town, they now have to come back and face it, and so it might not be the lowest point. It could be a moment of huge realization. It might be something they learned. I'm realizing, based on your question, Doug, that I used bad terminology in the course. To imply a particular emotional state, which may not be appropriate for all stories, and the real terminology that ought to be used is the point of no return.

[00:04:12] Because whatever happens at the end of Act two is a wake up call or a shifting that happens internally in the character where they can no longer stay in exile. They have to enter back into the struggle, and that is why it starts picking up a pace. I've said before that when they get into act three, the conflict accelerates to a fever pitch.

[00:04:36] Well, the whole reason it accelerates to a fever pitch is because they have to actually go back into the world from once they came. They can't stay in exile, and so that means they're closer and closer and closer to whatever it is that caused him to go into exile. And that means anxiety, and that's what why.

[00:04:54] I mean, anxiety will probably be there. I don't think it ever melts away. What melts away is the doubt. See, while they're in exile, there's a lot of doubt. There's a lot of shifting. I mean, it could be doubt about another, a number of things. It could be doubt about their skills and abilities, but it could just be doubt about if this is something they have to do or it could be doubt about how they're going to do it, whatever it is they have to do.

[00:05:19] By the time we go into Act three, it's not that the doubt is gone in terms of their skills, but they have clarity to know that it doesn't matter. The clarity is I have to face this no matter what, and that's why the stakes are so high, right? Because we actually shouldn't believe that the character is necessarily gonna pull off whatever it is that they pull off.

[00:05:42] We don't know that they're gonna win. And so anxiety is another way to say that. There should be still be a lot of tension and conflict in the story. The stakes are high because we don't know that they're gonna win. They don't know that they're gonna win. But what shifts is that they know they have to do it anyway.

[00:06:00] That's what brings them back into the old world, if you will, the original world, is that they realize they just can't stay out of it any longer. They have to face it. They have to face the music, come hell or high water. Whether they win or lose, they're in. And that's the fever pitch that's happening. Does that clarify this?

[00:06:20] Yeah, that clarifies that. It does. Yes. That was great. Thank you. Okay, good. Good. I'm glad. That's helpful. So now I have to figure out if I need to go and add in an addendum to the course. I probably do. What I might do is just take what we've talked about here and try to do that. 'cause I do think that's an important.

[00:06:38] Clarification. It's not all hope is lost. It's the point of no return. The showdown is coming no matter what, and they can't avoid it any longer. So that kind of parallels the original crossing the threshold at the end of the AK one turning point. But then now the stakes are higher at the act two turning point, right?

[00:06:57] However, before we get there, did you know that there are seven crucial plot points that every story must hit in order to satisfy the audience? And if you miss even one of those crucial plot points, you risk losing your audience's attention forever. This is why I've created a free training video for you where I break down exactly what these seven deadly plot points are.

[00:07:22] These are the essential plot moments that you need to hit in order to deliver a powerful, compelling page turning story. So be sure to check out my free training video on the seven Deadly plot points. It's going to transform your writing. Just click on the link provided in the notes, or head over to the storytellers mission.com and you can start watching this free training video right away.

[00:07:45] And you're using terminology from other structure. Yeah, sorry. Which is fine. It's fine, but I just, I'm gonna take it back to MA's terminology. So at the end of act one, when they go into Act two, is the act one turning point, which means they have to leave the normal world and go into the new world. That's all it means.

[00:08:04] They have to, they're forced into the new world. They can no longer stay in the old world for whatever reason. So that's the crossing of the threshold. Now at the end of Act two, they have to go back to the old world or the old conflict or whatever. They have to go back and face the thing that they've been avoiding this whole time or that they weren't able to face.

[00:08:23] So this is Harry Potter in the very last. Movies and the book of Harry Potter, he's kind of an exile. He's hiding. He and Hermione and Ron initially go out and are hiding 'cause they've left the school. Now they do have a goal. They're trying to get these horror cruxes. They're trying to find these horror crues, but they've had to go into hiding.

[00:08:44] They've had to completely go off the grid. They're not as. School. They're not doing any of those things because they have a clear goal, but they're certainly not facing Voldemort for crying out loud. They're just going after the horror cruxes. And so we spend a great deal of time in Act two where they are having this other mission that they're doing.

[00:09:04] It's not the ultimate mission. The ultimate mission is to face Voldemort, and that's when we do the shift when it's inevitable. And what happens to them in act. Two at the end is they get caught and they get brought to. Now the gig is up, they're caught, and now he's going to have to face Voldemort whether he wants to or not.

[00:09:28] And the reason it's the low point. For him, and that story is because his friends' lives, they're, I mean, they're probably going to be killed. What is he going to do? That's in the first part. They broke the movie up into two parts. So I'm talking the first part of the last book. Oh, I know you had asked, is it the same thing as the crossing the threshold?

[00:09:50] And in a way it is. It's just the reverse. Right. They're going back to the original world. That's all because they can't avoid it. But probably under n new circumstances, I mean, certainly not necessarily with all the advantages they had initially. I mean, that's the thing. So it's not exactly the same. It's the new, it goes back to the old world, but things have changed and they're at a gross disadvantage now.

[00:10:11] So that's important in terms of keeping the stakes high. Thank you for listening to the Storyteller's mission with Zena Del Lo May. To change the world for the better through store.