From Nebulous to Concrete: Transform Character Wants into Actionable Objectives

Ever feel like your story's goal is just too vague or abstract to get a handle on? You’re not alone!

In this episode, we dive into the crucial difference between a character's want and need and why it’s essential to nail down a concrete objective to keep your story moving forward. Whether you’re struggling with passive characters or just want to enhance your narrative clarity, this episode will guide you through transforming nebulous goals into actionable, compelling storylines. By the end, you'll have practical tips to sharpen your story’s focus and drive, ensuring your characters' struggles and triumphs resonate with your audience.


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Transcript

[00:00:00] And so our challenge is to clearly identify want versus need and let that drive the action of the story. But the only way it can is when the. Want is 

[00:00:15] Zena Dell Lowe: Hello and welcome to the Storytellers Mission with Zena Del Lowe, a podcast for artists and storytellers about changing the world for the better through story.

[00:00:26] Okay. So, What I'm going to talk about right now. 

[00:00:29] and this is, again, this is actually foundational stuff. This is really, really important as we get into story structure, because it's about how you conceive of story. So on one of the lessons, I already talked to you about. What is a story? And if you remember, I gave a definition and I said a story is the telling of an event That happens to a person or group of people and I went through a whole definition of let's break that down Let's look at that.

[00:01:00] But now I want to give you a slightly different modified definition of story.

[00:01:06] Zena Dell Lowe: But before we dive into this discussion, please like comment and subscribe to this podcast, and that will help us to continue to bring you insights and helpful content. So like, share, and subscribe. And if you have any thoughts or questions, leave a comment.

[00:01:24] But now I want to give you a slightly different modified definition of story. And the only reason I'm doing that is because I want you to see it from the character's point of view. It actually impacts greatly the way you conceive of story and then how we're going to break it down as we get into story structure.

[00:01:43] So here's the alternate definition, if you will, of story. Story is the recounting of a character's struggle to achieve a specific objective over the course of the telling.

[00:02:01] That's what you're doing. You're telling about a character who has a goal and they struggle because those are the obstacles that they're facing. Right? In fact, as soon as there are no more obstacles, They either get it or they don't so the obstacles are the things that make them struggle. It's the things they keep running into that make them struggle, this is a very important definition And and here's why Passive characters are so prevalent and most of the time when a story isn't working.

[00:02:30] I can almost always See that it's because a character has become passive. It's because a character is just reacting. They are not driving the action of the story. So when you start to think of story from the character's that it is a care, it's the recounting of a character's struggle to achieve something.

[00:02:53] It means that you're more clear about what the goal is. It means that you put that in a more concrete form. Now, this is also a really tricky thing. And in fact, I'm going to be honest with you. I've read a couple of things that people have put in the notes where they are walking a very fine line between a nebulous abstract concept of an objective and concrete.

[00:03:24] So I want to break this down for you because this is so terribly important. When you give your character an objective, it should be something that is concrete. It should be something actionable. What do I mean by that?

[00:03:38] Let's say that I have a desire to get closer to God. And that's the objective, right? That's the objective. Well, I, you know, what she needs, what Xena needs is to get closer to God. The problem with that, that's, that's not actually concrete. That is an abstract goal. And that is the kind of goal that a lot of us, especially from the faith based community tend to give our characters.

[00:04:06] They tend to say things like, Oh, this character needs to heal from her pain. Oh, this character needs this. Oh, they need to come to, you know, they need to accept themselves. They need to love themselves, but that actually can become a very abstract nebulous pursuit. And it's why then the story falters. So if, if, if the goal that you're giving Zena, my character Zena, is she wants to get closer to God, what you want to do is try to put that in a concrete form.

[00:04:42] So, Xena wants to, read her Bible every day before she goes to bed. she wants to pray three times a day. She wants to, you know, like you try to find things that are now actionable to reflect that, to be the thing. So, in a story where you have a character who is struggling with some sort of relational issue.

[00:05:07] Give them a specific relationship thing to do. Like, she wants to win over her sister and convince her sister to start having weekly dinners at her house. I mean, I'm making this up, but I mean, that would be more concrete than she wants to be in relationship with her sister again. Or, you know, like you want to try to put it in a concrete form. Because again, when you are conceiving your story, You need to know specifically what the character is pursuing.

[00:05:42] Now that doesn't mean that there aren't more abstract goals. For example, in About Schmidt, About Schmidt is a, is one of the films, by the way, that we're going to watch because it's sort of a teaching thing where we see structure in these sorts of difficult types of pursuits.

[00:06:00] And I think that's very important. But in About Schmidt, what he wants Ultimately is he wants his life to be important. He wants to be a big deal But then they had to put that in an actionable form. Okay, that's what he wants, but that's too vague So what is he going to do? Well, the first thing that he does is he tries to be a big deal At work he tries to he goes back to w and he'slike, well, I kn need some help.

[00:06:28] These you taking over, you know, th But when he goes there, h replaced him, doesn't want in fact, all of the boxes

[00:06:40] Are in the garbage in the basement. his life's work has been relegated to being in the dump in the basement. So his first goal then to try to be important was to go back to work to try to perform or to try to look good or to try to be needed at work, but he wasn't. So that is how we take that somewhat nebulous or vague goal and put some teeth in it, make it actionable.

[00:07:10] Then what does he do? Well, he, tries to exercise his autonomy. So he's going to go out and mail some letters and his wife says. Well, don't dilly dally. So, he rebels against that by going specifically to the Dairy Queen. So, these are the type that we are going to have some kind of nebulous goals sometimes.

[00:07:35] The key is to take that then and put it in an actionable form. So, then, Schmidt, one of the things that he ends up doing as he decides, he's going to break up the potential marriage of his daughter. That becomes very much one of the primary actionable things, but see, it's, it's specific

[00:07:54] now. In order to be important in order for my life to matter, I have to stop my daughter from marrying this nincompoop, but now he has something actionable to pursue. And even prior to that, I'm going to go down, I'm going to go down, memory lane and see, you know, and, and then maybe that's going to make everything make sense.

[00:08:16] But then when he goes down memory lane, he finds that his old house is now a tire store. So it ends up yielding nothing, no fruit, but he keeps trying that. And along his journey at one point, he's RV. Court or whatever and he meets that other couple and so he thinks oh, that'll be the connection If I if I connect to them, my life will have meaning but then he misreads the signs and that turns into a disaster. at every step of the way, he's trying to matter. He's trying to make his life matter, but they had to keep finding actionable ways for him to do that.

[00:08:50] Does that make sense? Zena i'm going to ask you something. Yes, please do so I don't do this in my life really, but for the character, I see that as making long term midterm and short term goals. So, like, the short term goal could be a little bit like what you're saying, like, you know, he wanted to organize something.

[00:09:15] And then a midterm is like what he's trying to do with his daughter, kind of like, I don't, I'm just using it as an example, but I never was good at doing this myself, but I see it very practical for characters because the end goal is the, you know, is. That objective, whatever their dream, whatever their hope, whatever their lifelong goal is, right?

[00:09:40] But then the arc is the short terms and the midterm goals to re to arrive there. I mean, I don't know if that's it, but I just saw that that is a very, you're absolutely right, Yvonne. And I, I talk about this as, as having mini goals, M I N I versus the overarching or the meta goal. So, the meta goal is the far reaching, the ultimate goal that they're after, but along the way they have mini goals.

[00:10:09] So, and this is, and you can see this more clearly in something that isn't as nebulous. So, if you're writing a mystery, generally speaking, the goal, is clearly to solve the crime. It is who done it, who did it, who committed it, and then to bring them to justice, which is not nebulous. That's clear. And that is concrete.

[00:10:35] It's a long term meta goal that you're pursuing, but then along the way. Okay, well now I need to go and interview this person. Oh, and this then yielded this clue. So now I need to go and investigate this clue. So it's all in pursuit of that long term goal, but it's these many things that have to be done along the way.

[00:10:58] Becomes easier with that kind of a story. But what I'm finding in this particular group, which is why I'm addressing this on this particular session, is that a lot of the stuff that I'm seeing. People are writing things that have more of these nebulous, harder to nail down goals. So it's not just about the mini, there are always going to be mini goals in pursuit of the meta, but there also has to be, the meta goal needs to be concrete.

[00:11:32] It has to be concrete. And somehow you have to figure out what the concrete thing is behind whatever the emotional desire is. Now let me give you another example that might be helpful to you. So I was doing a script critique recently or a manuscript critique recently where the gentleman had a story where it was during the, Jim Crow days in the south and, a little girls.

[00:12:07] Father was killed. and he was a good man. He was trying to help the cause of equality and all these things, but he was killed and then the girl's goal then for the rest of the story was very like, wait, what, what does she want? And so then I tried to draw that out of him. What does she want? And he said, well, she wants to go back to that place where she felt safe with her dad.

[00:12:33] And I said, okay, your story doesn't work because of that. Because the dad's dead! So you, you can't go back into time. You can't go back in time where she felt safe because her dad was alive. Instead, you have to reframe that to be like, okay, so what does she have to do? What does she have to create to make her father's dream.

[00:12:57] Real to realize her father's dream What does she have to do and then that's going to maybe give her the benefit of feeling that safety that goodness that light Whatever it was that he provided and his absence is now missing But she has to now Put make something come into being she has to create something that is a replacement for that Or else the story goes nowhere and she's just living in the past because she's never going to be able to feel safe Like she was when her dad was alive if her dad is dead.

[00:13:32] Do you see what i'm saying? So he had given the character the wrong goal But I understand the idea the idea is that she wants to feel like That safety the goodness that light the whatever it was that her dad provided You But because he's not there, she has to build something in her life that's going to now take the place of that, that will give her that emotional impact.

[00:14:00] Which changes the story and now, but it now gives her something concrete. So what is it going to be? Is she going to become a lawyer in a fight for civil rights? Or is she going to become an activist? Is she going to open a woman's homeless shelter? And now that's her dream to provide a safe place for all the, is she going to work with orphans?

[00:14:21] People that are like her, that no longer have their fathers. You know, what is it that she does where now she brings that to the table for other characters and in so doing she gets that feeling back. But if she is only trying to pursue A nebulous feeling that she had when her dad was alive That story is sunk before we ever even get started. Are you with me?

[00:14:46] And that's what I see happening a lot in, in a lot of the stories coming out of our community is that we have goals like that, that don't actually make sense and don't give us anything to sink our teeth into. And that's going to be the kiss of death. Maria, you had a question. Is this kind of like when people put a theme into their story when they should be just working with the story?

[00:15:14] Is it when they mix up a theme in there? No, and that's a great question. It's a great question and it can be, it can be because a lot of this can be thematic, but I'm actually talking about concrete goals. Everybody has to have one and the problem, and maybe that's probably, okay, I'm working this out even as I'm answering the question.

[00:15:38] Maybe a lot of it is that people are thinking the theme is the goal. Right. Let me give you an example, another example. So my story that I'm working on is called The Bottomless Box. And it is about a puppet named Percy, who, Has a goal of, he's got a little sidekick named Wilbur and his goal is to find a safe place for he and Wilbur where they can be free of abuse because they are being abused by the master.

[00:16:15] And so first, first they have to escape the master's compound and then they have to find a safe place where they can live free of abuse, where they can finally be at peace and be happy. All right, so that is Percy's goal. Now that's going to, that has to drive them throughout the story. 

[00:16:37] so what Percy wants is to be able to protect Wilbur and keep him safe and find a place where he can Where they can be protected and safe, but what he needs, what he needs is different. So what he wants and what he needs is different, but then the theme of this is actually even different than both of those things.

[00:17:00] So the theme of my story is actually. Not either one of those things. So I guess maybe there is some confusion. Then a lot of times people can confuse their objective with their theme.

[00:17:15] And so our challenge is to clearly identify want versus need and let that drive the action of the story. But the only way it can is when the. Want is objective. It is concrete. It is tangible. It's something attainable. It's something that is in actual existence. See, a nebulous goal means it's air. It doesn't actually exist.

[00:17:48] A concrete goal means we will know when it's there. So with Percy, He's looking for a place. He's looking for a shelter. He's looking for something that will provide food, that will provide water, that will be a, a, a, a home of sorts. And that makes it concrete, not just an emotional place, which is vague. Now, his need is more emotional.

[00:18:15] His need is to recognize that he actually loves Wilbur. Dearly like he just feels right now. He feels a responsibility. He thinks it's his responsibility But he doesn't even realize his desperate need for this friendship or that he really You know or the love that Wilbur has for him that he deserves I mean, it's just it's actually kind of a love story between two friends.

[00:18:40] I mean in a lot of ways and Not sexual So just so you know, okay. Um, but anyway, my point is that the need can be kind of feely a little bit feely but the want can't Okay. Yes, marybeth. I have a question. So in general Is there a general point in the story where the? Goal, it should be obvious to the reader.

[00:19:08] Like, what is that point? Is it by the end? Well, if we don't know what the goal is, we don't know what the story is about. That's where that comes out of usually the inciting incident. And that's what clarifies for the reader and for us, what this story is about. That's why when people say, I don't know what this story is about, it means that.

[00:19:30] I don't know what that character wants. I don't know what they're after. I don't know why I'm in this story. If you can't identify that early on, we don't know what the story is about. So yes, that happens early. That's what drives and moves the entire story forward. Without that, your reader is lost and they don't even want to stay in the story.

[00:19:52] So that's the thing that needs to be articulated very, very early on, and it needs to be clear. It needs to be clear to both your reader and to your character and certainly to you. Is the internal need the same? Like, should they both coincide about the same time or do you get to the end point? Okay, so going back to Schmidt.

[00:20:13] So with Schmidt, we learn early on that he wants to break up the marriage between his daughter and the guy. Now, that's a case where It takes us a little longer as the viewer maybe to quite understand the other part of it that, oh, he wants his life to matter or whatever the case may be. But we at least know that part.

[00:20:39] We at least know that this is a story about a guy who feels like it's his duty to try to save his daughter by breaking up her marriage. That's at least what we can articulate, even though what the story is really about is a guy who needs to become a better person so that his life can have meaning because right now he's a schmuck,

[00:21:02] he's a selfish schmuck. So he needs to come to realize that. And in realizing that. He at least becomes a decent person who deserves for the universe to reward him with some meaning But until he is humbled until he stops being a selfish jerk He doesn't get anything. Does that make sense? But nevertheless the concrete thing becomes about the daughter It's tricky stuff and that's why I think people get really confused about this And we're not going to solve it in this particular session either It's not like you're gonna Magically have it all.

[00:21:39] It's, it's something we continue grappling with, but this is the challenge for you that I present to you today. I want you to look at what that goal is for your character and see how you can put it into concrete form. What is the concrete objective that they're pursuing and how will they know they get it?

[00:21:59] That's another way to look at this. That's another way to answer that question for yourself is how will they know when they've arrived? How will they know when they've gotten that thing? What will it look like for them? So for a character who's maybe has a family that is completely disconnected and, and they're desperate for their family to be back together, then how will they know when they've successfully put the family back together?

[00:22:27] Zena Dell Lowe: Well, before we continue our discussion, let's take a moment to hear from our sponsor, me. So here's the thing. One of the primary ways that you will make your story work is if you understand story structure. And if you approach your story with the right story structure method that allows you to tap into the universal principles of storytelling that are out there and then deliver a narrative that brings joy and pleasure to your audience.

[00:22:55] If this is something that you want to be able to do time and time again, then you need to sign up for my course, Hollywood Story Structure Made Easy. This course is designed to give you the tools you need to create compelling, really well structured narratives that capture your audience. Sign up today using the link provided in the notes section below, and take the first step towards becoming a master storyteller.

[00:23:20] Okay, now, back to our conversation.

[00:23:23] So for a character who's maybe has a family that is completely disconnected and, and they're desperate for their family to be back together, then how will they know when they've successfully put the family back together? Well, maybe it's the vision of, it's a Christmas dinner and they're all there together and everybody's present. Okay. So now that can be the visual, the objective, the concrete that they're looking for, even if they're not aware of it, you, the writer are so that when that scene happens, now they've arrived.

[00:24:01] And now it's in concrete form. Is that helping or does that add confusion? Makes it clear, better? Okay. Uh, yes, Yvonne? As you were explaining that, I was seeing, like, if you know, as the person that's writing the story, and if you know that, what these things are, then it's like, sometimes you're leaving breadcrumb trails.

[00:24:28] You know, leading right and then, you know, this is 1 place we arrive at and it's a sign post. Sort of thing, right? Some scene where, like you said, now this person is like sitting at dinner and you can see this is a dream. This is something that they always wanted. And the next part of this would be, you know, bringing in.

[00:24:56] Are the family members and incorporate, you know, and having like some harmony, like, but those are breadcrumb trails that you do with, but you have to know what the end goal is. And you're absolutely right. And you see how now that plays into story structure because now you see scenes that have to be there, especially scenes that illustrate the absence of it.

[00:25:18] So let's say that that is your ultimate goal, right? For your character. Like she just wants to put the family back together. But the family, they're all dysfunctional. They're all fighting. Nobody will talk to each other. And so, but she keeps working and she keeps kind of going to that person and trying to work on them and going to this person and all these things.

[00:25:36] But now you can have a couple of scenes that you've designed in there where she is able to get people to come over and then big fights happen. And it ends up like, it's terrible. Like it goes the opposite direction of what she wanted. Right? So she's failing. She's failing until the end. So a good story like this, by the way, is the, um, If you ever saw the original movie for Parenthood, with Steve Martin.

[00:25:59] Which I absolutely love. And you've got, you know, this is an ensemble piece where you've got individual storylines, but by the end, they're all together in the hospital as the new person is having a baby. And it just shows this family that has been really through it in the ringer. And they've all been individually through the ringer, but now here they are all together.

[00:26:19] It is the most beautiful thing. And I can't watch it without bawling because it's such a lovely place that visually shows us that. They're okay. They're okay. In spite of the challenges and the suffering they've been through. And in a way you would say parenthood is an example of a more nebulous goal. Um, because what are these characters really want, but you could go through and identify it for each character or each of the main characters, each of the siblings, and then you can see how they all tie into each other to show some cohesiveness for the family.

[00:26:58] But you're absolutely right. It's breadcrumbs. That's the whole setup and payoff. And it plays in the story structure because now you have specific points, marks that you have to hit along the way, given whatever it is that your character is pursuing. And by the way, this doesn't have to be See what I'm actually trying to do is simplify this for you a lot of times What's gonna happen is you're gonna hear this and all of a sudden it's gonna like your brain's gonna feel like it's it's melting Like oh now and you're gonna get confused.

[00:27:28] You're gonna feel like ah, what am I doing? But really when you start putting it into concrete form, that's actually the simplification It is so Harder to tell a story when the goal is abstract, you have, you've just made it super difficult. So somebody like the writer of about Schmidt, this guy is really good at those things.

[00:27:54] He's an expert writer. He writes a lot of movies like that, where the goals seem to be a little bit more hidden, at least to the main characters. They might be I don't even know, sometimes I think the characters themselves in his films don't know, but you the writer need to know. And so he knows, but you have to be an expert to be able to pull off some of those nebulous things.

[00:28:19] So I'm actually trying to give you something that's going to make it easier for you to be successful in your story, which is give your character something concrete, give them something concrete to pursue. Because if you can do that. then you will make it so much more systematic in terms of the way they go about pursuing it.

[00:28:41] It won't be so vague and you won't get so lost. You'll get lost if you can't put it in some sort of concrete form. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. Again, we are going to keep unpacking this as we go because this is key. This is essential. This is one of the most essential, if not the most essential things in story structure because everything hinges on that.

[00:29:09] And I have lots of examples coming up and we're going to keep breaking that down and it's going to get more and more clear. But, that's what I wanted to address today. Now, because I want you to be thinking about it and you don't have to solve it right now. Noodle, noodle, noodle, let it percolate, let it be working on you.

[00:29:30] And sometimes by the way, we don't know It took me a long time to be honest with you, to figure out what Percy wanted. Like I wasn't initially thinking that he wanted to find a safe place. I wasn't sure what he was after. And that's why the story wasn't working. Because I wasn't sure what he needed, what he wanted, and how he would get there.

[00:29:58] And so once I was able to articulate that, it took me writing and, and, and wrestling with it and getting feedback from people to even be able to articulate that. And then that helped the story start working. So, sometimes we really don't know, but until we know, our story will struggle, Because unless you can clarify that, you can't make all the elements come together. Because now you have them pursuing things that just don't fit. So, this is your challenge, but also the magic. The magic. When you get this right, it is where the magic comes from. This is also why the goal needs to be big enough to sustain a story.

[00:30:47] See, it can't be something like She wants to eat the last piece of pizza on the tray. Okay. That's a clear concrete goal, but it's just not important enough. It's not big enough to sustain an entire story. So hopefully this is helpful to you. And again, we'll keep expanding on this. We'll keep diving into this, but this seemed an important thing to bring up now because that's going to color our story structure.

[00:31:21] And don't worry if you don't know it quite yet. You just know that you will have to know it. And if you don't know it, but you know some of the things that happened, just keep writing. Don't worry. Don't let it stop you. And some people would say it should stop you and, it might make you have to do more rewrites if you don't know it, but I don't want it to stop you.

[00:31:42] I just want you to know that at some point you're going to have to understand it. And sometimes we don't understand it until we can. Write a little bit more.

[00:31:52] Okay, any questions on that?

[00:31:54] I was thinking as you were speaking, first of all, this was great that if I knew what the character.

[00:32:01] Character's brokenness is what their flaws are that this would help me identify what their wants and needs are because sometimes they would be similar and sometimes they'd be very different. Yes. And I usually try to separate a little bit and say, because, well, it just, it depends on the type of story, but a lot of times the flaw is what is informing the need.

[00:32:28] Okay. Okay. But the inciting incident should be giving us the want. Would you say that one more time? The flaw informs the need, but the inciting incident informs the want. So, whatever happens that launches them on their story. That thing, boom, something happens. It should give them a specific something they have to pursue.

[00:32:58] But that, but their need is, is still here because of their wound. And usually, you're trying to design it so that only going through this particular adventure would actually be the thing that forces them to face that need and have to come to terms with it. So it's sometimes helpful to try to separate those slightly so that you see them differently.

[00:33:19] The wound informs the need, but the inciting incident is what gives them their want.

[00:33:25] Okay, that that's very helpful. Thank you very much. Good. 

[00:33:30] Yay.

[00:33:31]